Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to the Ortho Joe Podcast, a joint production of the Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery and Ortho Evidence.
Join hosts Mohit Bhandari and Mark Swankowski as they discuss current topics and publications in the world of orthopedics and beyond.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: Morning, Mo.
[00:00:21] Speaker C: Morning. How are you, Mark?
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Excellent. Looks like you're at home for a change.
[00:00:26] Speaker C: I'm at home, yep. At. On campus here, which is nice. I've got a few books behind me that, you know, people think I read, but I don't really read. They're just there, but you know how it looks.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Well, you got that excellent work of. I think it's Ravi Shankar.
[00:00:39] Speaker C: That's right. Yeah. That's a sketch I did.
Gosh, long time ago. Yeah.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Yeah. It's very well done. You're quite talented, Mo. I'm sure you. You realize that.
[00:00:49] Speaker C: But, you know, it's a hobby, but, you know, like, it's. It's something I reinvested in about probably seven or eight years ago. I really started getting back into it like weekly, like, almost habits around sketching. And it's made a big difference. Right. It's just mostly time away. Everyone does their thing kind of thing.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you were kind enough to do the very first what's important arts and humanities piece on it, and I'm. People can go back and read that and you can read about Mo's journey into art.
But we're doing a little bit of role reversal now since it's been two years since you took over as editor in chief and I became this old, irrelevant guy. But highly relevant.
[00:01:31] Speaker C: Yeah. And you're not old.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Well, I realize you're as old as you feel, and I do feel old when I shank one off the tee box. But you don't have that problem. I know, but anyway, so you've been hard at work at kind of revisioning how. How the journal works, and I. I just want to spend a few moments talking with you for our audience to kind of get behind what your thoughts are on several things. So that. First, let's start with you.
You have reorganized, I would say, the editorial board from the traditional way that we'd done it in the past with an editor in chief and deputy editors for hand, shoulder and all that. You've. You've gone off in a quite different. Different and forward thinking way. So let's start with that. Can you just tell. Tell our audience why you've done what you've done?
[00:02:28] Speaker C: Sure. And. But first, before I do any of that, I would say that you know, the work that you did around globalizing the journal, you know, the addition of many, many editors from around the world has made sort of the transition for me even, I mean, quite easy. The only thing that I would say for me personally was, is I was personally having a hard time saying, how do I like, how do we stay connected with a very large group of individuals who are all very skilled, very talented and have all kinds of insights and just started thinking about. And quite frankly, Mark, it was, you know, looking at how other groups have been doing it as well. But for me, having a small group of individuals that might be much more strategy thinking, so kind of breaking it up into roles in a way, like a small group of people that. Which you could have for thinking about forward strategy, you know, strategy that might be across all types of sub subspecialty areas. So that became what we basically conceptualized as being executive editors.
And then we thought, well, it would be also nice to have a group of senior editors that would be doing some strategy work, liaising with executives, executive editors, but also working very closely with the, you know, the heart and soul of the editorial process, which is what we're calling the associate editor group, which is, you know, they're identifying the reviewers, they're, they're, they're building those networks, they're doing critically important peer reviews for us, you know, and assessing those papers and working very closely. So you can imagine taking a very large organization and quite frankly, it's amazing how you were able to manage that. Like, I look back at just how impressive it would have been for you to have done that. For me, it became much easier to focus on creating, I would say, almost groups and teams. So senior editors with one or two associators working as a team could then, you know, potentially have more internal communication. So therefore, you know, we would be able to meet once, maybe twice a year as a large group, but most of the time there'd be a lot of interactions happening that's been, you know, away. It's very early, so we'll have to see how that works out. And obviously, you know, the reality is you make a change with the hope that it's going to work for the people involved. And we're very, very receptive to making more changes if it isn't working. But right now, that's where we are with that.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: And the people involved has consistently been the authors and, and the readers of the journal.
That part, I'm sure, hasn't changed as being the kind of the mission of who the journal Serves. But what I would commend you on is having that created that group of strategic thinkers that you can bounce things off and they're reading and thinking about all the things that you are as far as dissemination of work, how to identify the most important work, changes in methodologic approach, et cetera, et cetera.
And I think to have that small strategic group is a really, really good.
[00:05:31] Speaker C: Idea and it's really worked out well. I mean, we're able to meet, I think for the most part every three or four weeks, but probably it'd be rare if we haven't met twice, you know, in a month because we're working really hard to do that and interact. And it's just oftentimes as you know, Mark. Right. I mean, you have an idea but then you're wanting to stress test the idea and you stress test it as with the many people as you can, but you get answers immediately. And you need people around you, as you can imagine that are going to tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear, but what you need to hear.
I get lots of that. I get lots of that.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I know most of the people on that, that group and they are definitely not bashful and they're definitely not going to worship you as being the angel.
[00:06:17] Speaker C: No, no, I get no worship.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: It' almost like the same feedback you get at home, I think.
[00:06:23] Speaker C: Oh, it's. Yes, yes, yes.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Honest, honesty, fault.
[00:06:27] Speaker C: Yes, yes, I am grounded. Very quickly.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: One other thing that just briefly before we talk about the potential change in special issues. But you have really, really globalized the work of the journal in terms of associate editors all across the board. And can you just share your, your thoughts about why this has been such an important aspect of, of the changes?
[00:06:55] Speaker C: Sure.
You know, and you and I have spoken about this at length and maybe, you know, and maybe it's probably, probably is relevant, you know, to share that with, with everyone involved.
You know, if you are going to be.
There's nothing wrong with being a journal that serves your region or your country. We have many, many journals in the world like that. But if we, if our goal is to provide leading musculoskeletal evidence, the gold standard, so be it. Around the world. We have to make sure that our content and the individuals who are involved in helping with the content as well as our authors represent the world in which we are hoping to lead. Right. With evidence. And I think that just means getting out to sites all because of our clinical trial experience. Mark. You know, people, people would say you know, they'll have a young investigator, I'll divert for a second, young investor will come up and say, listen, I want to start a multi center trial. And then they start sending emails all over the world. And then they come to me and say, yeah, no one's responding to me. I said, well, of course they're not responding to you. You've got to go to them, you've got to interact with people, you've got to learn about them. You have to show other parts of the world, including our colleagues, you know, both in North America. You've got to travel to North America, you got to go to places in the US and Africa and India and China and, you know, wherever it may be, Europe, you know, and be there, learn about the people. That's how you're going to do. It does take a lot of effort to do that, but I think if, if the Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery could have an aspiration to feel like it's your local journal, but behave quite frankly like it's the global journal, you know, and that's kind of the overall hope. And part of that has been, you know, doing a lot of travel, more than I probably have traveled in my life this past year, which is, you know, good and bad. We can talk about that. Another whole session about the, you know what, the pains of getting airline status. You've been there, you know, and there's no glory in that. But anyways, that's kind of the impetus for it.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Yeah. You, you and Air Canada are now linked in a way that you'd never expected.
[00:08:57] Speaker C: No, no, no, you'll get someone else. Say thank you. Thank you for your, thank you for your commitment to us. I feel like I don't have a choice in Canada. I don't have a choice. They keep thanking me for my, my commitment to their companies. I don't have a choice. Give me another choice.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Mo, you've been working quite hard on the concept of special issues. Maybe you could explain your thinking behind that.
[00:09:20] Speaker C: Right. I mean, and I guess it gets back to Mark in the discussion around what is the future, what is the, what's the role for a multi specialty journal in a world? Same thing. Right? We're seeing that with major organizations. Right. With the subspecialty organizations. Surgeons have become so subspecialized, appropriately so because there's so much knowledge in every area. But how do we serve the greater population of surgeons who may already have a very tried and trusted subspecialty practice? They have their subspecialty journals they have their subspecialty organizations. And it came to me was that if we can find.
And again, this was all part of the team effect here, but if we can find topics that every orthopedic surgeon, regardless, especially should be aware of, it should be up to date on those types of areas. Would be really, really smart areas for multi specialty journals like the Journal of Bow and Joint Surgery to begin focusing. So you can imagine topics that could deal with artificial intelligence. You could think of topics dealing with the one that we're just launching, you know, as the first issue of this new look, so to speak, is an infection issue. Infection around the world, no matter what you do, is still an area of importance.
And I think everyone thinks of it the same way. There may be slightly different tactics to how we manage it, but that's the goal. But we're thinking of these larger topic areas. Now. One could argue you could make every issue a specialty issue. But for now we're really focused on, you know, developing three or four specialty issues per year. And we may go to do more. And it's going to be about looking and seeing how the, you know, the readers and the surgeons around the world respond to it.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: Well, I'm really looking forward to seeing that first issue come across my desk because I understand there's going to be some special artwork and other things that will make it more interesting.
[00:11:09] Speaker C: Well, we're in an attention economy, right? That's the one thing I see, you know, and I use this and it's. And I. It's meant to be partly facetious, but I don't think it really is, is that, you know, we, the human attention span has now about a second less than a goldfish. And the goldfish can last about nine seconds. Humans, they say, have eight seconds to catch their attention.
And I don't think it's going to get better.
[00:11:32] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:32] Speaker C: If you look at what's happening with, you know, the movement that is AI and how quickly we're wanting answers and how difficult it is to, you know, fight in, in an economy that is based on fighting for your attention.
We're going to have to do some visual changes, right. If you have multiple journals, first of all, the idea of even having multiple journals in print is another story. But you know, right now, JPGS is committed to PR now. And you know, imagine walking by and you see something. We've got to catch your eye. So that's part of it, right? But then once we catch your eye, we have eight seconds to do something on that cover that would Say to you, say, huh? Maybe I'll just take another 10 seconds and another 10 seconds and try to keep flipping. And that's the goal. I know it sounds very calculated, but it isn't quite like that. We're trying to find really important issues that matter to, you know, our host of musculoskeletal practitioners. Whether it's anywhere from a medical student interested in orthopedics all the way up to a senior orthopedic surgeon to a physiotherapist or, you know, a rehab specialist, etc, that's fantastic.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: And you're following, following along the sage advice of Ted Lasso and be a goldfish, right?
[00:12:38] Speaker C: I love it. Yeah, that's true.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:40] Speaker C: Yeah, that's true. If bad things happen, I can golf. I am a goldfish.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: I'm trying to.
[00:12:44] Speaker C: I'm trying to be, I'll tell you that. Just forget the last swing. Forget everything I just did. Yeah.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Live in the now.
[00:12:50] Speaker C: Live in the now. Live in the now. Yeah.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: Well, maybe you could just describe to the audience how the Journal, the office works.
Speak about the executive committee and the other key individuals in the Journal office.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: Oh, gosh. I mean, so those of you. And just as I was right, when you hear about the sort of the address in Needham in Pickering Avenue, Pickering street in Needham, you think, oh, my gosh, I'm going to a place that has, in your mind, hundreds and hundreds of years of history. History.
And when you go there, it. It is. It is really.
It's a dynamic environment when you've got the team there. And so for me, it's been great because, like, nothing happens alone. Right. And you have a host of amazing, amazing team members on the editorial side, the lead side. I could name them all, but there's so many. But they're all there, and they're amazing.
You've got, you know, you've got a whole chief executive group that is, you know, really looking to make sure that the Journal is heading in the direction that it needs to head.
But the truth of the matter is that this whole reimagine could not have happened. It could not have happened just by saying, okay, well, you know, we should change everything, and not even everything. We should change in a way that makes sense. So there's been so much deliberation, and I would say the feedback that I've received at our editorial meetings, and I mean that by the editorial staff members, the leads really have been dramatically impactful to how the Journal is looking. And obviously, we. We have our executive editors we have our senior editors who have been really, really important and of course, our associate editors. The ultimate judge of all this, though, Mark, is going to be the reader, our readers around the world and our. And we're. I'm really, really hoping that they're going to look at this as a change, as a change that is relevant for the time. And I always say what the journalist has done every decade or so, you know, with, with the leadership it's had over many, many decades, has been exactly the right thing to do for the time that they are in. And we're doing our very best to kind of, you know, take a look at the barometer, so to speak, see what's coming, and do everything we can to be relevant and important and serve, you know, serve our, our readers. And that's, that's the hope anyway. And we're going to continue to iterate around that.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's been great chatting about the new vision. I just feel like we didn't really rarely get a chance to shout out for the people that help organize this ortho Joe stuff because it's just you and I chatting. But the people that do the work, Christina Nelson organizing these things, and Alan Harper, who's been with the Journal for a long, long time, over three decades, mostly handling the copy editing group, but also this. And Carl Lopez, great skills with editing all this nonsense that we spout out. And I would point out to the listening audience that in the 140 year history, you are the 11th editor, which is quite amazing, the history behind this.
[00:16:04] Speaker C: Oh, and it's like when you walk down the hall, you get this breadth of history and you also, you know, you carry that brand on your shoulder in a way to think, you know, you don't want to do anything wrong by it and you're so honored and privileged to be part of it. The one thing I will add to you is that we could probably do a separate podcast on Christina Nelson, separate podcast at Ellen Podcast on call. Each of them have very, very unique and interesting takes on the world. And so anyways, yeah, it's a big thank you. There's so many people that we should be. I should be thanking, but I reiterate everything you just said.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that's great. Last opportunity. It's been Think jbjs What's behind that? I've seen it. I've seen it on the. I saw it on a sweatshirt recently at the oral team for the American Board surgery.
[00:16:50] Speaker C: Yeah, you know what? To me, it's just a simple, like it's just something that I've been saying a lot of myself, which is, you know, if you've got a great idea, think JB js. You know, we're interested. You know, if you've got a recent paper that you really are unsure about, hey, think jbjs. You know, if you're thinking about getting involved in the publication side, hey, yeah, think JV js. And just keep, you know, keep it in. In your mind. Right? Keep it in your mind. And part of that branding has really just been just. We just want you to remember that we are here to serve you in every possible way. And we've got multiple ways in which you as an individual can get involved. When I think you, the proverbial, you can get.
[00:17:32] Speaker B: Well, that's a great way to end. And thanks for explaining the changes in the Journal to our audience and keep up the good work, Mo. You're doing a great job.
[00:17:41] Speaker C: I mean, like I said, it was very easy when the baton is passed from someone like yourself. So appreciate it.
[00:17:47] Speaker B: All right, thanks for chatting.
[00:17:50] Speaker C: Right, thank you.
